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Twelve Monkeys

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12 Monkeys

  • "Hey, I'm the innocent victim here. I was attacked by a coked-up whore and a, a fuckin' crazy dentist!" - Wallace (50%)
  • "The freedom for Animals Association on Second Avenue is the secret headquarters of the Army of the Twelve Monkeys. They are the ones who are going to do it. I can't do anymore. I have to go now. Have a Merry Christmas!" Dr. Kathryn Railly (30%)
  •  "It's just like what's happening with us. Like the past. The movie never changes. It can't change, but every time you see it, it seems different because you are different. You see different things" James Cole (10%)
  • "There's the television. It's all right there. All right there. Look, Listen, kneel, pray. The commercials! We're not productive anymore. Don't make things anymore. It's all automated. What are we for then? We're consumers, Jim. Okay, okay. Buy a lot of stuff, you're a good citizen. But if you don't buy a lot of stuff, what are you then? What? Your mentally ill." Jeffrey Goines (10%)
  • "Ah, fuck the bozos!" Jeffrey Goines (0%)
  • "There's no right, theres no wrong, there's only popular opinion." - Jeffrey Goines (0%)
  • "No, I shit you not. Life is really weird. A monkey and a roast beef sandwich" - Agent No. 1 (0%)
  • "Stocks! Bonds! Purchase! Sell! Yes! No more Monkey Business!" - Jeffrey Goines (0%)
  • "Proliferation of atomic devices, uncontrolled breeding habits, pollution of land, sea, air, the rape of the environment. In this context, isn't it obvious that Chicken Little represents the sane vision, and that Homo Sapien's motto of "Let's go Shopping" is the cry of the true lunatic?" - Dr. Peters (0%)
  • "She's not honey babe. She's a doctor. My psychiatrist. Understand?" - James Cole (0%)
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Ep 1 12 Monkeys La Jetee

The Cinephiliac Lounge
The Cinephiliac Lounge
Ep 1 12 Monkeys La Jetee
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12 monkeys posterTerry Gilliam’s 12 monkeys written by David Webb, Peoples and Janet Peoples. As the opening credit spell out 5 billion people will die from a deadly virus.  In 1997, the survivors will abandon the surface of the planet. Once again, the animals who ruled the world, James Cole is a prisoner in a post-apocalyptic future of 2035, where humanity lives underground. James Cole is haunted by recurring dreams of his childhood memory, of being in an airport with his family and witnessing a traumatic scene of a very upset and beautiful blonde woman chasing after men who’s ultimately shot. He is offered the chance at a pardon. If he would go back in time to find the army of the 12 monkeys who they believe are responsible for a man-made virus, so that they can get a sample of the pure virus to find a cure for humanity in the future. Chris marker’s La Jetee is a short French film that inspired the 12 monkeys. It is a story of a prisoner in an underground society in the aftermath of world war three, because of his strong recurrent childhood memory of witnessing a traumatizing incident involving a beautiful woman and a man at airport, he’s offered a chance of a pardon if he will be the subject of a series of time-travel experiments into the past, which he has a strong connection to and the future in an effort to reach food, medicine, and energy.

Transcript in case you don’t want to listen

What we watched

La Jetée
12 Monkeys

What we drank

Monkey Shoulder
The Macallan Sherry Oak 12 Years Old

Media

12 Monkeys
Le Jetee

Links

The Oral History Of 12 Monkeys
The director and screenwriters of ’12 Monkeys’ look back on the film 25 years later

12 Monkeys La Jetee transcript

Scott:

Welcome to The Cinephiliac Lounge. I’m Scott Kilroy 

Pat:

and I’m Pat O’Connell 

Scott:

and we’re two guys who like movies. Every episode, we discuss a movie over a couple of drinks today we’re discussing 12 monkeys and its inspiration, the short subject film. La Jetee a warning for listeners. There will be spoilers, but before we get started, maybe you should talk a little bit about us and why we’re doing this.

Pat:

Yeah, we met a few years ago, you know, just for and giggles because I knew I wouldn’t remember anything off the top of my head. I found a copy of my Brooklyn college transcript to try and figure out when we might’ve met. I’m looking at spring of 1990 language of film.

Scott:

That sounds right. I don’t know. I don’t, I have no recollection of us actually meeting. Maybe we didn’t.

Pat:

That is very funny because I don’t, I don’t know either much, much like 12 monkeys and La Jetee, the subjective memory. I’m not sure when we actually back, I just feel like we’ve always known it.

Scott:

You, you were one of those guys.  I caught on really quick was one of the more creative people in the school. And I figured I could hitch my trailer to this guy. And when he’s a big shot in Hollywood, I’ll come and crash on his couch.

Pat:

I’m still working on that.

Scott:

Yeah, that was, that was definitely my first thinking. Yeah. So we’ve known each other a long time.

Pat:

Yes. Yes. And, and we’ve often sat around at an actual lounge or bar and discussed whatever it was that we’ve just watched or watch separately or watched at home and always enjoyed it. And you came to me with this idea. You want to talk a little bit about the Genesis of it?

Scott:

Yeah. I just always thought that our conversations about movies were interesting. I thought that you always had a lot that you brought to the table and you brought a lot made me kind of be a little more creative, uh, to try to keep up with you. And so I, I always thought we had fun time, a fun time to talking about this stuff, and I thought, you know what? Maybe an audience would like it. And, uh, I’m a computer programmer by trade and it was pretty easy to set up a website and a, here we are.

Pat:

Yeah, no, it’s been awesome. It’s been a whole lot of fun looking forward to tackling our inaugural episode. First one 12 monkeys.

Scott:

Yep. We picked a good movie to start. 

Pat:

Mean, it’s, it’s funny. It’s almost creepy. Just how, how relevant and how weird it is that this film to 25th anniversary of 12, 12 monkeys this year, even though the film was released, had an early release in December of 95, it’s general release across the U S was January 5th, 1996. So we’re talking about this very close to the actual 25th anniversary of this film, which is pretty awesome. And the inspiration La Jetee came out in 1963. And so it’s very rich material, a lot to lots to get through. I guess the first thing for our listeners who may, I’m sure that people already have, have seen this film, if you haven’t, you must. It’s absolutely fantastic. I’ll give a quick synopsis. Terry Gilliam’s 12 monkeys written by David Webb, Peoples and Janet Peoples. As the opening credit spell out 5 billion people will die from a deadly virus.  In 1997, the survivors will abandon the surface of the planet. Once again, the animals who ruled the world, James Cole is a prisoner in a post-apocalyptic future of 2035, where humanity lives underground. James Cole is haunted by recurring dreams of his childhood memory, of being in an airport with his family and witnessing a traumatic scene of a very upset and beautiful blonde woman chasing after men who’s ultimately shot. He is offered the chance at a pardon. If he would go back in time to find the army of the 12 monkeys who they believe are responsible for a man-made virus, so that they can get a sample of the pure virus to find a cure for humanity in the future. Chris marker’s La Jetee is a short French film that inspired the 12 monkeys. It is a story of a prisoner in an underground society in the aftermath of world war three, because of his strong recurrent childhood memory of witnessing a traumatizing incident involving a beautiful woman and a man at airport, he’s offered a chance of a pardon if he will be the subject of a series of time-travel experiments into the past, which he has a strong connection to and the future in an effort to reach food, medicine, and energy.

Pat:

So those, those are the synopsis of the two films we’re going to discuss. The first thing I’d like to ask is, do you remember the first time you saw 12 monkeys and where did you see it?

Scott:

I do not remember. I remember seeing it. I don’t think  I think I started on video. I don’t think I saw in a theater and I have no recollection of it other than enjoying it. My brain just drew a complete blank where you brought it up. I was like, yeah, I love that movie. And I’m like, I don’t know why, but so watching it again was great. And it really came back to me. I don’t know. I must’ve seen it near when it was released on video. Cause I remembered it being kind of a big deal amongst like the film nerds at school.

Pat:

Yes. But unfortunately I have the same kind of story where somehow, you know, when we were in film school, I, I managed to watch, I try to watch everything. I saw so much garbage. That’s a lot of good stuff, you know, obviously, but I would watch anything that changed as I got older where I became, I didn’t go to see everything. And then, you know, these days, you know, before the pandemic, uh, I probably saw three films a year and you know, of the five that I wanted to see. But back then I would go to see everything. I would be at the movie. I live at the movie theater, but somehow, and it’s, I don’t know how, because I love Terry Gilliam. I’d loved Brazil. I loved time bandits and, and reside scene in theater. But somehow some way I did not see this film. So by first viewing of this film was renting it on VHS during film school. And I’ve always, you know, going back to it, especially this last time, like, you know, I really messed up this. I really should have seen this one on the big screen.

Scott:

Yeah. I would’ve loved to see this on the big screen. Cause I don’t think I did.

Pat:

Let’s go to the other part of this podcast. What, uh, what are you, what have you chosen to drink for this discussion?

Scott:

Oh, okay. Well, I’ve just, I’ve decided to drink the very appropriately named appropriately, uh, monkey shoulder which is a, uh, it’s a Speyside, scotch. They, they recommend you mix it use it as a mixer, but I like it straight. And it’s pretty good. What about you?

Pat:

That’s awesome. I am drinking. It was a gift from a dear friend, Gabe Macallan, 12 years old, Sherry Oak cask. 

Scott: 

Nice. 

Pat:

So I’m also drinking scotch. So solu. All right. Take care now. You’re, you’re, you’re a little bit better at describing. I’m very, I’m very good about just drinking the drink. Not so much about discussing the drink, dial it. You go first. How was your day?

Scott:

Okay, so I get a lot of like Berry flavors and I get a bit of like a little hint of butterscotch and if you’ve ever had Glenmorangie, it’s very similar to that. It’s um, and the one interesting thing about the scotch is it’s a blended scotch, which means they could use grain whiskey, grain, alcohol in it, but they don’t. It’s a pure scotch, even though it’s a blended scotch.

Pat:

That sounds great. Listen, what I want to say something that I don’t think I’ve told you before. One of the personal goals in doing this podcast is to get better at appreciating and describing and critiquing what I’m drinking. Because as I said, very, very good at just drinking it, not so good at breaking it down. So I’m going to try, I’m going to try with this instead of the bouquet, the Ambrosia, the Sherry cask, it’s quite spicy. I like it. I don’t know why I probably will be told, but guys out there, if anyone’s listening, I obviously, I’m not an expert. I I’m kind of a little bit of caramel. I don’t know why.

Scott:

Okay. That’s valid.

Pat:

Hmm. So 12 monkeys, La Jetee, which, which, which one do you want? You want to just tackle 12 monkeys first and maybe,

Scott:

Yeah. Let’s talk about 12 monkeys. I have to admit La Jetee was a little bit of a chore to get through. I mean, I thought it was really interesting just so if you don’t know the art for the audience’s sake, La Jetee takes a series of still images. There’s only one moving shot in the entire movie with a narrator kind of explaining what’s going on. And sometimes the camera zooms in or zooms out, but it’s, it’s just still images. It was a little tough to get through. I got to admit, I liked it when I finished like, when it ended, I was like, wow, I could really appreciate that. But there were points where I was like, I want to turn this off. Cause I’m just sick of the still images.

Pat:

Well, I to, to be a nerd about it, I’m going to point out that when the movie starts, it’s also, it’s a, it’s a short film Donald about 28 minutes. The film, when it opens, it tells you clearly  Chris marker doesn’t really consider this a film. He refers to it too, as a photo ramon. So he considers it a photo novel, which, which is actually extremely interesting. And I can see that it is, it takes a lot of patience and focus, but I can, I can see in those black and white still images and the voiceover narration, there are some, there are some things that I could see are very influential design. The thought, even though I thought that 12 monkeys or Terry Gilliam, might’ve been inspired by the latte when he was doing the film, because La Jetee has a lot of, lot of images of the scientists wearing all sorts of weird like glasses or, you know, glasses that are like bizarre glasses that like lenses on top of lenses kind of thing. And I was, I was, Oh yeah.

Scott:

And that he totally got that in 12 monkeys

Pat:

He has an, a 12 monkeys, but he, you know, I watched a documentary recently and he claims that he actually, he did not watch La Jetee before he, while he was doing 12 monkeys that he consciously avoided it. So I think it’s very bizarre and funny that La Jetee has this, that you, if you watch the two films, he watched you guys sit down and watch La Jetee and you watch 12 monkeys. You’re going to think like, Oh, there’s some obvious visual like references or, or, or obvious homogenous, because that’s what I thought. But apparently that’s not the case, which is makes it very, very cool and very weird in a lot of ways.

Scott:

Yeah. That that’s weird. Cause I, I would’ve, I would’ve assumed the same thing that he, he obviously liked La Jetee. It took certain like elements from it, but he didn’t that they just kind of turned out to be similar. That’s kind of weird

Pat:

La Jetee and 12 monkeys, all of the major beats in La Jetee are used in 12 monkeys because you have, it has a similar beginning. You have a, you know, now since it’s a photo ramond and not a film, a story told through still black-white still images, but it, it points out this, this, this is a story of a child who who’s obsessed with this one traumatizing event. So it starts at an airport. Now the airport’s very different than watch. La Jetee’s, it’s almost like a peer. I think, I believeJetee French means peer.

Scott:

Yes, it does. I believe it does too.

Pat:

The airport is very interesting anyway, the fact that there’s a, a, like a long, because it’s a long pier and then people are above watching planes below that. Go ahead and take off. Like, it’s not an enclosed airport, it’s all open air. So it’s very, very cool and very different, but it starts at an airport. It tells a story of this prisoner underground. He gets chosen, and it’s promised some sort of pardon. If he will do this, go through his experiment. He goes to the past and turns out that the end of the film, I won’t say it now because we’re going to discuss 12 monkeys. The same exact beat is hit in 12 monkeys where it begins and ends at that airport around this one particular event. The other interesting thing, and most, very important thing is La Jetee and 12 monkeys, the linchpin, it’s almost this linchpin that they’re both very tied to their referencing of Alfred Hitchcock’s vertigo.

Scott:

Yeah. That is interesting that they both have that. Especially considering that Terry Gilliam didn’t watch you La Jetee. Um, I’m I’m sorry. I’m still kind of like blown away by that. Yeah. One of the things I loved about 12 monkeys that I like all the Terry Gilliam’s movies, I could even like, even like the Fisher King, which wasn’t, I don’t want to say it was bad. It was not my favorite of his, but he has a great way of just making the audience feel uncomfortable and the way start the way it starts out. Bruce Willis is his character is in a, in a cage and there are other people around him. Like it’s obviously some sort of prison and just the way that a claw comes and just grabs him and picks him up. And just everything about that just makes you feel like I don’t like it. Yeah.

Pat:

It’s, it’s, it’s like the vending machine crane that just picks out people for quote, unquote voluntary service. It’s like Brazil. And some definitely like Brazil where it’s this total technocratic world where humans are not really in control of their fate, their mere cogs in a machine. So yeah, it definitely starts off with, with that. It starts off with the memory. It starts off with the image of, uh, of, uh, of, of a young boy, his eyes, and then the dream. And then he wakes up in that environment that you brought up. And then once he, once he has to, to get ready for quote unquote volunteer service, which is, he has to prepare for going up into the surface world, which he has to, he has to get like, COVID safe for this surface world. The, the, the, that that get up is just amazing. Cause he’s has to put on like a whole condom suit. Then he puts on his deep sea diving kind of apparatus. And then it’s like, he’s, you know, covered then with bubble wrap and like a clear plastic hazmat suit on top of that.

Scott:

Yeah. It’s, it’s definitely, it’s, it’s definitely freaky. And then, then when he, you know, he, after he goes up on the surface, when he comes back, the next shot of him is naked being scrubbed down. And it’s like, you know, you go from this ridiculous costume of like that. I can’t even imagine how you could move in that thing. And then, uh, you know, he’s immediately, you know, just stripped bare and, you know, some weirdos just hosting him down with us with a brush.

Pat:

Yeah. They’re like, yeah, there’s, there’s, you know, this movie was one for the ladies, you know? Cause there, there is no gratuitous nudity or anything, but there is lots of man ass in his film. Lots of, and lots of man as like dripping and like Milky white, like, so it is ridiculous. It’s funny. It’s great. Like Bruce Willis, he has two different scenes of, of him like being like washed deloused and then Brad Pitt also moons, the, the audience and make spray every woman who saw it’s heart swooned when he he’s in the, a mental institution and shows his. So lots of man in 12 monkeys.

Scott:

Yeah. I also think it’s interesting. You’d never find out what Cole was in for. Like what, what crime did he commit? Yeah.

Pat:

Yeah. I was, that’s funny. I, I went back and I was looking at it and I was like twenty-five years and he’s there for 25 years. And it’s just like for being disruptive, not paying attention to authority, I’m freaking out the top of my head. But the thing that, that stuck out to me because the design and look of this film is very close. It’s much like Brazil, but it’s also very close to one of my favorite films of all time blade runner. So does this retrofitted look of the future where the future is cobbled together from bits and pieces of, of the past. And so I, I immediately kind of thought about blade runner in those respects, but in that scene where he’s first brought to before the scientist, after he’s been scrubbed down to show his man ass, they say they call him an anti-social six, which immediately made me think of nexus six. Oh, interesting. Okay. Oh, next six is, is the Roy batty and PRIs the model number of the replicants in Berlin.

Scott:

Oh, okay. Sorry. You, you know, a lot more, I think your knowledge of blade runner is insanely deep compared to mine. So

Pat:

Yeah, that one, that one I’m completely obsessed with. But um, going back to this, so I don’t know, I don’t know precisely what he did. They never, they never say exactly what he did, but it might’ve had notes somewhere, but it was basically like he was a problem in his future society, the future society after being underground, I know that we’re seeing a INAUTABLE we will, we only see a prison, but it’s completely oppressive in every way. And it’s very odd that the scientists somehow are the ones that seem to be running, everything like that, that you never, there there’s no talk of a president or anything in that society. Now it could be that they we’re only focusing on that portion, but it’s still from what we’re seeing, the film, it’s a very autocratic technocratic world where only, only science, the guys who possessed that kind of knowledge are the ones that are somehow in control because of the promise that only science science created the problem. And the future scientists have somehow seized control by claiming they’re the only ones who can fix that.

Scott:

Yeah. It’s and they, they don’t look like a stable bunch. If you, if you look at them individually, they’re, they’re pretty creepy. Yes. They, they

Pat:

Look pretty much like permutations of each other. They’re just, they’re mostly all dudes. They’re supposed to be like, there’s a zoologist, a geologists and astrophysicist, I’m forgetting some of the others, but it’s almost all men. And that the one woman who is very important to the entire film and a story at the end of the film, she, her name is Jones, but yeah, and also the scientists and the film in the future, everybody is covered in plastic. Like no matter what they do, theirs, they have their clothing or whatever, everything, the paper, the map that he’s given to like finding the, you know, the surface world where he’s going out to get specimens and runs across. And that that’s when you see how animals have taken over the surface where you didn’t counters scared by a bear. And that’s a, that’s a motif throughout the entire film.  It comes up in a lot of different ways. Some of which is very funny when he’s in the day room at the mental institution, he, he sees a commercial about, you know, uh, a bear for the commercial. My favorite one is after a couple of jaunts, he winds up back in the in the future and they’re like, Oh, you did such a good job. You know, now we’ve figured out where the, you know, army of the 12 monkeys is they’ve covered him in a bear blanket. The movie is just, it’s so layered. And it’s, it’s, it’s um, it’s designed that it, this recurring, it’s a huge motif in the film or theme is, you know, animals. Yeah,

Scott:

Yeah. It’s yeah. I would say, yeah, animals, definitely. And also just like what re what, you know, kind of subjective reality where you have Cole, who who’s his character questioning his own sanity. It multiple times when he’s in different parts, when he’s in the future, when he’s in the present, you know, him thinking he’s crazy and the other in the other scenario, and then you have the, the psychiatrist who sometimes seems like she’s questioning, you know, her, her sanity, you know, where they, they refer, they, you know, one of the cops tells her, you know, maybe have Stockholm syndrome because she’s siding with Cole, you know, who kidnapped her basically.

Pat:

Yeah. As I said, it’s very layered. There is. There’s a lot of, there is a lot of technique in the story and in design, trying to make sure editing in every way, trying to make sure that the audience, as well as Cole questions, his sanity and whether or not what’s happening is actually real. Or if he is, as one of the patients says mentally divergent, there’s a lot of referencing in the film. Like, Oh, you’re only thinking about that. You, you, you’re saying that because, you know, you, you, you think this is about a virus because you happen to have met goings in, in the hospital. And, um, he, he, he mentioned that his father was, uh, you know, studied or was an expert in viruses. So everything is, there’s very overt ways that they do this. And then there’s very, very subtle ways, which, you know, this film much like blade runner and the films that I tend to really get narrative or obsessed with, or the films that are so dense.

Pat:

So layered that every time you watch it, you, you recognize or see something new and 12 monkeys, uh, you know, getting ready for this podcast. I watched it, I had seen it a little, you know, year before this and caught some things and watching it for this podcast. And I watched it again a couple of years ago. Every time I catch more and more, and some of the things that he does, it’s very subtle where there’s a point where he has a guard. There’s the guard from the future has blonde hair. And he’s the one that’s like, Oh, when he brings coal before the scientists in 2035. And he’s the one that says, you know, are you going to be a problem? When he tells him it’s time for voluntary duty, there’s a sequence when Cole escapes with the help of goings from the day room.

Pat:

And he is, he’s, he’s totally drugged up. And it’s very hard. He gets out and he’s trying to make himself, he’s making his way to this elevator to escape. And you see a, you see a security guard. And when he first looks at him, the actor is the actor. Who’s playing the guard from 2035 with the blonde hair. And he looks at the, he looks at the elevator and he sees people coming out and turns around. He looks back and he sees, and it’s a completely different actor sitting in the same spot, reading, reading. Actually, I caught this also in both instances, the person, the security guard is sitting here reading a world news, like, like inquire. There was like an Inquirer kind of a tabloid. Yeah.

Scott:

I remember the weekly world news with no with Bat Boy. Yes. That’s something that I, unfortunately, I think a lot of people didn’t get to experience, but we were lucky enough to be at the time where we know what Bat Boy is

Pat:

That ties into soup this whole, this whole notion that the film is, is, is completely packed to the gills with this, this theme of where teeth of the subjective nature of memory and perception. Can you, can you trust the world that you’re in? So it’s almost like Philip K Dick paranoia, so subjective nature of memory. And it’s one also is very it’s, which is also the subject of La Jetee but 12 monkeys takes it to subjective memory and subjective, like cinematic memory and pop culture memory, because the, the film is, is riddled with referencing throughout of other films or using clips from TV and films to reference time and stuff like that. Uh,

Scott:

Oh yeah. And I mean, one of the things that blue that really surprised me was the film starts out and you’re, you’re totally disoriented because Terry Gilliam and the script writers assume that the audience is going to catch on. Eventually they’re not spoon feeding you, you know, what’s going on. And so you feel kind of disoriented at the beginning. And then by the time he gets to the insane asylum and he’s in the day room, you thought you were disoriented before, and now you’re completely disoriented. Just the way some of the people are acting and everything. Like, I don’t know how anyone could go through that and be sane.

Pat:

Yeah, no, the, the film is, is throughout, it maintains a level of controlled insanity within the storyline and within the characters, because there are points in the film where there’s a lot of direct referencing by the inmates as to who’s crazy the inmates or, or society. There’s a lot of movies, very, um, anti-establishment, anti-consumerism in, in, in, in many of the things that the characters are saying and pointing out.

Scott:

Yeah. And then, and I also think it’s interesting that, you know, going to seems like Jeffrey Goins, which is Brad Pitt’s character, who seems pretty, pretty, not mentally well, but a lot of what he says is true, ends up being true. Like he talks about his father, like his father’s an important man and everything, you know, and you think, Oh, that’s just the part of the gibberish that he’s throwing out there, but then you find out, no, his father is really important and really wealthy. And you know, this, this brilliant scientist, you know, which, what else was he saying? That was true. That didn’t seem it at the time.

Pat:

Yeah. His father played by Christopher Plummer, which as a side note, how awesome. And how ridiculous is it to see Christopher Plummer with this Foghorn Leghorn Southern accent?

Scott:

Yeah. It was weird. I, the accident really threw me. He did an okay job with it though.

Pat

Oh, no, absolutely. I just, it really, it really made me chuckle seeing him, seeing him do that effect, knowing that he’s British and to be able to affect that Jeffery. And like, when, when he’s, when he’s giving his speech at the house, when they’re back in 1996, and Cole has, has put Katherine Riley in, locked her in the trunk, we don’t know that till after. So he can go and try and confront Goins. And it goes to the Christopher Part. I wrote it down because it just, not only does it speaks to the way that it references other films and pop culture, because there’s a lot of referencing, but also pointing to the traditional science fiction, cautionary tale, but just he he’s up there. And he’s like, nah, nah, I don’t have to tell you that. The dangerous aside. So a Taiwan threat from Prometheus stealing fire from the gods of the cold war era of Dr Strange love terrors. The fact that he’s referencing Dr. Strange love. It’s very layered. Like I said, it’s the referencing of like monkey business and time travel. But, and even in that same scene would, would when Christopher Plummer doing this whole thing and references Dr. Strangelove going says to call, he’s like, Oh, because there’s a question of whether or not he remembers who he is. And he’s going to tell his bodyguards to throw them out. And then when they’re walking, you know, by themselves, the guy knows who you are, the great escape, 1990. So the movie, the last time I watched it was like, this movie is just packed with references to other movies as well, which ties into the vertigo thing.

Scott:

Yeah. That’s totally true. Oh, I also wanted to talk about David Morse for a little bit.

Pat:

Creepo.

Scott:

He’s a guy that pops up in movies. Like he’s never been a big star. He’s like very rarely started in anything himself, but he’s, he’s a great, like secondary or third, you know, third character and, uh, the way they make them up in this with the blonde hair, like, even though he’s got, probably got a minute and a half screen time, every time he’s on the screen, you know, there’s something wrong with this guy.

Pat:

Oh yeah. Definitely. When, when you first see, you first see him, I think at Catherine Riley’s signing

Scott:

Yup. At the signing. And he starts going off about, you know, apocalyptic stuff. Yeah.

Pat:

He said something along the lines that crack, there was like, Oh, you know, pretty much saying like, Oh, humans are, you know, responsible for, you know, desecrating and destroying the planet. And he says, he says something along like, Oh, you’re going to give alarmists a bad name. And more of the anti-consumerism anti-establishment of like the, the, the homosapen motto of let’s go shopping or something. He’s so creepy. Like he’s just smiling the entire time saying the weirdest stuff and yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. She, yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s a really good casting choice. I have to say the cast of this movie was great. Yeah.

Pat:

Everyone is completely solid casting against some extent casting against type. I mean, Bruce Willis was know diehard and he was at that point, like the man’s man action star, and this is a very different role and it shows a very different side to himself and he got a lot of, he got a lot of good, critical response for the way he approached this character.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I have to say, I have a hard time with Bruce Willis alone. I do. I I’ll admit that I love die hard, greatest Christmas movie ever made. I have not. And he was really good and pulp fiction, but a lot of movies that he, I just feel like he plays the same character to a certain extent.

Pat:

Yeah. I mean, I mean, the same can be said for a lot of actors that we like, or I particularly like, but I thought there was something a little bit, there was a little bit, it’s a little bit of a difference in how he is in this role. It’s more the first half of the film.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. No, I, I agree with you. I think, I think he works in this, but I think it’s, it’s playing against the typical Bruce Willis. Yes. Yeah. The fact that he’s so confused and he doesn’t know what’s going on and that’s something, you know, in a way it kind of makes it very vulnerable.

Pat:

He’s, he’s, he’s absolutely vulnerable. Like both emotionally and physically, because even though, even though he’s described as someone who’s like, like, uh, a beast, which goes to the animal theme, Cole is a beast. He can, he even, even drugged, he can, he can like crack the skull of like two officers of five that are trying to wrestle him down. I mean, he’s a, he’s a monster, right. Physically. Oh, yeah. But he’s always, he’s always, he’s always bloody. He’s always up. He’s always, he’s always like drooling on himself.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a different, it’s a different take than I think he’s, I don’t think he’s ever played anything similar to this before or after. No.

Pat:

So for alerts also, like when the only films where he’s he’s the hero, but he doesn’t, he doesn’t make it, you know, and

Pat:

That’s also very divided Brad Pitt wasn’t. He got, he got a, he got an Oscar nomination, but he didn’t win that, but he did get a golden globe award for this. And I think he deserves it.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah. You believe he’s crazy. I mean, you, you believe he’s, it’s like Brad, Pitt’s, he’s kind of, it’s kind of hard to watch movies with him sometimes. Cause he, you know, you just see him and you’re like, Oh, he’s a big star. And in this, I totally dropped that. Like I was just like, no, this is a crazy person that he’s talking to.

Pat:

Yeah. They had him working with someone to try to get that, that, that frenetic pace any, and he, it it’s really good. He does. He does. He does an excellent job and you know, watching it, there points when he’s in a day room, when you first meet him, he’s kind of like in his own clothes he’s wearing, he’s wearing his pajama pants over his, over his regular tan pants. And then his pajama bottoms underneath, like, like it’s layered different visual. Like the costuming is showing that he’s, he, he can hide his own insanity in some ways. Cause he’s very well-spoken for someone who’s, Schicho crazy.

Scott:

Yeah. I mean, what are you saying? Does it, you know, sounds just, it’s completely nuts, but yeah, he, he’s not, he’s not like hard to understand at all, but yeah. I, I loved his character. I mean, even when you see him later, when he’s at his dad’s house and he possibly could be on medication at that point, cause he’s not as manic, but he’s still a little off. He’s still not totally there.

Pat:

Yes. I wanted to, I wanted to point out something I saw and I didn’t read about it and maybe it’s obvious, but I figured out why he, he, he looks so insane every time you see him as he’s got, he obviously has he seen, he has a, uh, contact his left eye to keep one eye stationary.

Speaker 3:

Oh, weird. I, you know, I, I didn’t notice that at the time, but now that you say it, I like thinking back on it. Yeah.

Pat:

It’s subtle, but it’s, it totally works to have one eye that’s completely cockeyed and it’s a one eye is moving and the other is not really because it’s a contact. Oh, interesting. Okay. And also the first time you see him, when he pops his head out of what he was wearing is there’s a cartoon noise, especially in the day room. Everything is associated with Goings is accentuated with a sound by cartoon noises. Even if there isn’t a cartoon on, huh? I want to, I wanted to talk a little bit about it’s really, it’s really weird having watched this film about a pandemic while we’re in an actual pandemic.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It’s pretty uncomfortable

Pat:

At some point. Like there’s a lot of things like watching with COVID colored lenses, some things that would not have stood out to you when the film first came out or when we saw it on VHS ha takes on completely other meanings or as much more important or salient now.

Scott:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. I mean, it’s a, it’s an interesting movie to watch during the, during the pandemic and being inside, it’s eerie

Pat:

In some of the, some of the ways that it it’s eerie to watch because it actually is happening. And so certain things that you wouldn’t have thought that wouldn’t mean the same thing back then, like when James Cole is brought back from the dude comes back and he’s, you know, deloused from being up on fall on tier service. The first thing that the blonde security guy says when he brings them to the, the, the cabal of scientists is James Cole cleared from quarantine. Quarantine means something. It has a lot more resonance now than it did back. Oh yeah, no, you’re right. And there’s other weird stuff. Like, I mean, you know, that, that wall that he’s in, when he gets in that weird chair, I love, I love that in that weird interrogation briefing room that they have with that chair, that slides up into the ceiling.

Scott:

Yeah. Another, just one more thing to like set, like just one more thing to knock you off base.

Pat:

And then they have that. They have that wall that they, they keep changing. They keep posting putting like, um, pictures and other information and headlines. One of the headlines that I caught last night, Watchers shows a clipping, shows up Christopher Plummer and it says, clock ticking, no cure yet. Which made me go, Hmm, it’s very, very COVID-19. Or, or the other thing that I laughed out loud, going back to, uh, creepy David Morris, trying to talk to Catherine Riley at the signing when they first cut to it. There’s just this non-sequitur of this guy who just got his book signed, but Catherine and, and he’s like, I’m going to right now to get vaccinated.

Scott:

Yeah. It is creepy thinking about it, these in these times, uh, also like just seeing Pittsburgh, like devoid of people is not very comforting.

Pat:

Right. Um, I also want to talk about the weirdness of the interrogation ball. So if there’s so, Oh yeah, you have this ball and it’s got video screens and each scientist and Cole is on that ball. And then you get the weird stuff where they’ve got lenses or whatever, but it made me chuckle the last time I watching it. Cause it was like, wow, this movie predicted zoom meetings.

Scott:

Yeah. Kind of did. Yeah.

Pat:

Yeah. Just, just as, just as off-putting and invasive, to be fair to the 2035 future of 12 monkeys, there are a lot less glitches than actual zoom. No one freezes up when they’re talking to call. Yeah.

Scott:

Yeah. You don’t have to tell people you’re on mute.

Pat:

And one other, one other COVID thing or recent thing that I was like, this is so bizarre. You know, it’s very, it’s a S it’s a quick part in, uh, in, in, in the film, but, and it’s mostly, I think, through a headline, but there is a clipping when he’s at the animals. So freedom for animals association headquarters. And I see something, or maybe it was in the interrogation slash briefing room in a future where they show a clipping of goings. And it’s, it says senators rattled, because they had invaded the Capitol and let he let loose a hundred snakes.

Scott:

Oh, wow. I didn’t catch that. That’s crazy.

Pat:

And I was like, that’s kind of creepy gone the way that current events and the events of 12 monkeys bizarrely mirror.

Scott:

Yeah. That’s a little frightening. Yeah. It definitely adds another layer of the move. Yeah.

Pat:

You can have layers. How’s how’s your drink? Doin? 

Scott:

My drink is gone. 

Pat:

Your drink has gone. Have I, you know, I I’m still working on mine. I obviously I’m talking too much. 

Scott:

No, no, no. You’re doing good. 

Pat:

I better drink more.

Scott:

Yeah. I didn’t pour a huge, huge amount. I just did a little, you know, this being Sunday at all. Try and to, uh, trying to be good. I didn’t go crazy.

Pat:

I understand. I had a question actually. So when you watch the film or watch films in general, do you have a drink when you watch the film? 

Scott:

Yeah, Usually. Yeah. Usually I do. How about you?

Pat:

Oh, I always do. I mean, to be quite honest, I’m not very sophisticated. Most of the time when I’m watching it, most of the time I’m very like Cobra, Kai, Johnny Lawrence. So like just like, Oh, to watch a movie, I’m going to bring up the old core’s banquet.

Scott:

No, I usually I’m usually drinking bourbon. I it’s, it’s funny that I have scotch in the house. Cause I usually don’t through watching 12 monkeys. I was drinking, um, Henry McKenna. Ten-year-old bottled in bond, which is a great bourbon. My good friend, Tommy gave it to me and I finished it off before the podcast. That was what I was supposed to drink for the podcast. But that went gone.

Pat:

That means it was good.

Scott:

It was just too good. Yeah. It was too good to sh not hold on to,

Pat:

We didn’t talk about Frank Gorshin how do we not talk about Frank Gorshin because he’s, he’s so amazing. And Gina had never watched it. No. Gina had actually seen the film before. Okay. And for the audience who doesn’t as Gina is my wife and she recounted a tale of, it was a horrible date that she had watched the film on. And so I think that colored her, like remembrance of the film, she just was like, Ugh, 12 monkeys. But I made her watch it with me and she really enjoyed it. Oh good. No, she, she was, she, she was, she was very impressed and sh and she liked it and, and said, yeah, I don’t know why I thought it was very difficult to follow and I just wasn’t into it because of the situation I was in, which brings up, uh, I forget. What was that article you sent me about? The 25th anniversary was kind of like talking to David peoples and Terry Gilliam.

Scott:

Yeah. And, um, yeah, it was interesting. He, he didn’t hold any punches wasn’t um,

Speaker 3:

And I’ll, I’ll add this, I’ll add the link to it in the notes. So podcast, if anyone’s interested, but, uh, it didn’t seem like he, he just kept talking about Bruce Willis making an ass face. Uh huh.

Pat:

I think, I think the words pincher was used.

Scott:

Yeah. Uh, which I just thought was hilarious, you know, after, after making this great movie and just having all these layers to it and then like, all you want to talk about twenty-five years later is Bruce Willis, his face not being what you wanted,

Pat:

But in, in that article, they bring up how difficult the material was for people. So they, David peoples and Janet peoples did this. They, they got the permission from Chris marker who through, through, uh, through a dinner with Francis Ford Coppola. Cause Coppola was friends with Chris marker. And, and he just kind of mentioned off the cuff, like Janet and David would like to do this, this film based on your La Jetee.  I think you should let them do it. And Chris Mark was like, Oh, okay. And I thought it was gonna be a big deal. The, the, the, the article goes on to describe how difficult difficult it was. Like Terry Gilliam saw it and he got it and was interested. He had another film I can’t remember was that he was supposed to be working on at the time and pass, and then they couldn’t get other, other directors would look at it and they didn’t know what to do with it. And I think John SEDA,

Scott:  

No. And then they dumbed it down. At one point, they like tried to like put more stuff into it to explain what was going on, which Terry Gilliam, when he found that when he got back version of the script hated and asked them to go back to the original. But what were you going to say?

Pat:

I was going to say that the article says that John SEDA, who, who plays, um, he plays the, the, the other prisoner that’s in the cell next to him. Jose. I’m sorry. He’s thank you, Jose. He, he, he said that it, he says in that article is something along the lines. Like, I didn’t understand that until I watched the film and, and the more I watch it, the more I understand it. Yeah.

Scott:

Yeah. It’s a weird film. I don’t think it would get made today.

Pat:

Great. Because it, it doesn’t dumb anything down. Like you either get it or you don’t, and there’s, there are more questions in there are answers and it’s, that’s, what’s interesting too, to me, is that when you think about it, it doesn’t hand you everything on a silver platter, which I think is great.

Scott:

I mean, yeah. You could still have tons of questions about that. Any, you could take any 15 minutes of the movie and do you feel like you want more knowledge of what’s going on in that scene?

Pat:

No, definitely watching the film, you know, Catherine Riely when she’s giving her, her speech or a presentation on her book and talks about, you know, this character from the 14th century that spoken a different dialect and, you know, warned about the dangers of, of a plague 600 years later, I thought that it was cold, but then I remembered, wait a minute. They’ve had, they had, they’ve had other people who’ve they’ve sent out before. So at first I thought it was him. And then, then I was like, Oh, wait, no. So the referencing on some of these things, some of it is coal. Like the world war, one stuff that she discusses. But some of it probably was someone else because the, I thought it was cold, but the, the illustration shows someone who had a beard and stuff like that. And then there’s stuff off the cuff. Like, I don’t remember the CA I don’t know what the character’s name is, but the, the, the, the raspy voice guy that he keeps hearing, he’s like, Hey, Bob, you gotta prep a job.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. There’s that guy really exists. Or is that just in Cole’s head? I don’t know,

Pat:

Because at the end, when you think of everything through it, doesn’t quite add up because you think maybe he’s in it’s cold head and that’s supposed to like make Cole and the audience question, the validity of what’s going on and reality, whatever. But then he does, he does some stuff where that, I think that character is, is, is I would point to, is one part of the film where you really just don’t know. Right. Because he, he says stuff that it’s like, Oh, you got it. He shows that he’s taken us teases. Like, that’s how they, that’s how they can follow you through the, you know, the transponder and your teeth, which, you know, leads Cole to becoming what the dude, by the way, they do two plays. The pimp that comes in at, towards the end. I’m pretty sure he’s the bad guy and long kiss goodnight as well.

Scott:

Oh, really?

Pat:

When he says like, Oh, the crazy condensed this, when he’s taken out his teeth and then, and then he turns on a dime where then he acts like, he doesn’t know what’s going on. And when, when Catherine goes to Cole disappears, after he’s gone to the mansion to talk to goings, and he disappears when the cops show up and she’s by herself, she goes to the, the, the animal, the freedom for animals association by herself. And that, that guy, that raspy guy comes up to her. And he’s like, you gotta be careful that taking photos, which he says something, and it’s obviously true. And then he acts like, he’s completely, because in the scene previous, you see that they show, they put up new photos in the interrogation slash briefing room that says like, you know, cause at 5 million die, like, is this the source of the virus? And then you see her actually do it.

Scott:

Right? Yeah. So I don’t know. It’s it’s yeah. Like it’s very hard to figure that part out. I don’t think you’re supposed to be able to. Yeah.

Pat:

There’s, there’s a couple of things. There’s a couple of questions. I mean, there, you know, there are lots of, there are a lot of themes and motifs in the film. Like I said, there’s animals, there’s the theme and motif of eyes, which agree perception and, and bodes of spying and seeing like Coles, always being spied on. But one of the things that I thought was really interesting was glasses. Now, glasses, it seems to me that glasses somewhat a symbol of power or authority in this film because you have the scientists and you know, of the seven, the seven that he’s, I may be wrong in numbering, but of the scientists that he’s constantly talking to, that that keeps sending him back into the past. Only one scientist doesn’t wear glasses. That’s the woman. And like the scientists and Alicia Tio is wear glasses. And I thought it was funny, the, the, the power ball, zoom meeting ball that comes the, the video screens also have like some, some of them have like monocles and glasses on top of that. Like, it’s, it’s almost ridiculous. And cartoon is just how much attention it gives to them. Yeah.

Scott:

I didn’t really catch that. That’s a good catch.

Pat:

So when Jeffrey is back at his father’s house, he has the long hair, which is supposed to con confuse the audience as well as cold thinking that he’s the one in Cole’s memory in the airport, because now he has long hair, but in 1996, because he’s back with his father and he’s back in, in like not in a mental institution and he’s back grounded, supposedly in the real world with his father in the rich environment, goings wears glasses. Didn’t wear glasses in the, the asylum.

Scott:

Yeah. Wow. You’re right. I, you know, I, I didn’t piece that together until you mentioned it just now, but yeah. The glasses is a big, is a big part of this.

Pat:

And the last thing I’ll bring up is Christopher Plummer, because this one made me crack up as Jeffrey is upset. And he’s like, my fault was given a, give a very important address when they’re taught, when his body guards like, there’s this dude who showed up, he says, he knows you. And he doesn’t have his shoes on for some reason, which cracked up and he’s sleeping. And he goes, and Christopher Plummer notices. And as he notices that Jeffrey is kind of being escorted out, he takes out of his pocket, the craziest here’s this, he takes up this, this crazy, like spring loaded, flip opening set of like opera glasses on a chain to like, look at Jeffrey. Like it’s very bizarre.

Scott:

Oh, weird. I didn’t catch that at all. Well, I’ll tell you one thing that I didn’t think work in this, the love story angle, Catherine Madeline stoves character, like at one point she like kisses Cole. And I was just like, I guess, I don’t know. I didn’t see it.

Pat:

Apparently. You’re not the only one. The test audiences didn’t see it either. And yeah. And this ties into some, this ties, this brings us back to vertigo. Okay. So the end of the film, they wind up in a theater, the Senator theater in Baltimore, I believe, and gorgeous theater from at least the way the movie makes it seem. And there, they just happen to go to the, is having a 24 hour Hitchcock marathon. And so when they first go in, you’re talking and Cole says, and this, this leads up to what you were talking about. But Cole Cole says, says a line that struck me to my core as a, as a, as a Cinephiliac he’s watching it, the vertigo. And it’s a scene where Judy dressed as Madeline is with Jimmy Stewart, Scott and Scotty. And they’re looking at this cross section of a tree and she’s like, and she points like here I was born and here I die.

Pat:

And that’s, that’s referenced in La Jetee when he points to the woman and says, Oh, I am from here. And he does that whole thing with the, with the tree and the rep in that point, logically it was a direct referencing to vertigo because Chris marker was apparently a numbered and obsessed with vertigo. And it ties to his whole theme. [inaudible] memory is major theologically. It’s also interesting with 12 monkeys. But with Cole says, that struck me to my core is he says, it’s just like, what’s happening with it. He said something like, I’ve seen this movie for. And it’s, it’s just like, what’s happening with us? Like the past the movie never changes. It can’t change. But every time you see it, it seems different because you are different, you see different things. And that, you know, going back to, we were talking about looking at this film through COVID colored lenses and during a pandemic, it’s like, Oh, we see different things because we are different because we’re actually in a pandemic.

Pat:

And so going back to what you said that you didn’t believe the love story, the test audience didn’t either. So what they decided to do was in that scene, after he, he falls asleep, she, she glues the fake mustache and the hair on him. He falls asleep and he wakes up and birds are on, right. Hitchcock’s the birds. And he goes out, he sees Cathern Reilly and she’s just ordered tickets for the plane, but she’s now the Hitchcock blonde. And what, the thing that struck me when I was watching is that it plays this music. Now. He obviously just left from watching the birds, but the music is specifically from vertigo. And I, the nerd in me had a bug up my where I was like, this has got it. So I looked at the soundtrack and I believe, and I, you know, there are others who maybe I am not an expert in vertigo and I’m not an expert in 12 monkeys. And so we may got people telling me that I’m wrong, but when I looked it up and I listened to the track, the track that they chose for that scene of them, like trying to bring this romance together is, is the track is called the past. And the woman, which I thought was amazing. And I try to use music to in imbued this scene with this, this kind of romance and aura of mystery. So you’re not the only one who had that issue, obviously.

Scott:

Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah. I, I mean, I love the movie. It’s, that’s my only real criticism of it is that I felt like that was just tacked. I, there wasn’t much leading up to that. Like, if anything, they were kind of somewhat adversarial until that point.

Pat:

Well, I, I w I wanted to ask you from watching film. So, you know, Catherine rarely keeps saying like, uh, I felt, I felt like I met, you know, I’ve, I’ve met you somewhere before I’ve seen you before it’s throughout the film until she, until that scene, she’s she straight out says, I remember you like this. I felt like I’ve known you before. And I, I feel like I’ve always known you. And I don’t quite, I don’t know if I’m not getting, I wasn’t picking up on clues or something. Why does, why do you think Catherine really has this, this sense throughout the entire film that she’s known or met Cole before? Cause she’s the interesting thing is she’s not the one who can time travel,

Speaker 3:

Right? Yeah. She, she shouldn’t have those opinion basically. I don’t know. I, yeah. I mean, I thought, I thought that those, like her mentioning that stood out to me, but I, I just kind of accepted, it was never going to get resolved.

Pat:

I don’t have an answer either. I mean, it just I’ve been racking my brain to try and figure. I was like, well, did Cole maybe have, did Cole have Johnson to the past that he doesn’t remember? Or we haven’t seen, or, but I said, but that still doesn’t make any sense because it would only make sense if, and also we should mention, I don’t know if you’re aware, I know nothing about it, but they did do a TV series on 12 monkeys.

Speaker 3:

I, I, I saw that I’ve never seen the TV series. I don’t know if it’s any good or not.

Pat:

I don’t know. But you know, if I ever do watch it, which we quite a commitment, I wonder if they address that in some way, maybe, maybe in a TV series, they do something where coal winds up in the past, uh, before 1990, where he meets Catherine. Right.

Speaker 3:

That would make a lot of sense. Although it would be, it’s weird that he doesn’t remember it.

Pat:

Doesn’t remember it. Yeah. I don’t know. I, again, I don’t have the answers or maybe it’s completely supposed to be a metaphysical, like they were made for each other kind of soulmates. I don’t know. I have no idea, but I did. That’s why I asked you specifically since you, you were, you know, and, and again, I, I, I get your point a hundred percent. It’s not completely organic. It’s not totally terrible, but it’s not completely organic.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It just seems, it just seems like it, it just, it just struck me as the one thing in the movie that I was like, I don’t know if I buy this in a movie that has a lot of things that you could say that about, right? Yeah. So it’s kind of weird that the one thing that I couldn’t accept was like the most conventional part of the story.  You want to talk about the ending?

Pat:

Cole says something earlier in, in, in the film when he’s in a day room and he’s kind of, he’s drugged out and he’s trying to write a love letter to Katherine with a crayon. And they’re showing stuff on the TV screen of experimentation on monkeys and rabbits. It just, he says off the cuff too going is like, look at them. They’re just asking for it. Maybe the human race deserves to be wiped out. And the end of the film kind of proves that Cole is right, because the end of the film cold makes a call to the carpet company or whatever, which goes saying, Hey, am I going to come back? And then Jose pops up and all these guys pop up and they, they give them a gun. Like you got to do this thing. Uh, you, you gotta stop. But you know, I’ve said this time, you gotta follow, you know, do what you’re supposed to do.

Pat:

If you don’t, if you don’t come back, you know, we’re, we got to shoot the lady and Cole’s as I’m like, Oh, so this is, this has nothing to do with the virus. This is about following orders. And that’s they, the scientists after, you know, after all that Cole has done all he wants to do, is he just, he just wants to chance it happened. It’s and now, you know, it may be not viable or the best, you know, I don’t know how he could exist in his own timeline. You know, that obviously scientifically wouldn’t be good, but still their solution is to punish them by giving a gun to that so that they know that he will be killed. They set them up to be killed because he didn’t follow orders. They didn’t have to do that.

Scott:

I mean, they had enough information that they could have sent because I said the whole team of people pack at that point, if they were where if they really wanted to stop the virus. Yeah.

Pat:

So after, after he does all this and there, you know, the scientists who are fighting to help save humanity, sentence, this man to die, just because, you know, he didn’t follow order. So he it’s up that at the end of everything. Maybe now they, you know, they have the, the, the pure virus, they have the cure for humanity, but humanity, of course, they don’t learn. They never learn. Like they still commit a crime against

Scott:

Humanity. Yeah. It’s a pretty dark ending. It’s

Pat:

Extremely cynical. I mean, his films tend to be, you know, time, bandits, time. Bandits is another time-travel film of his that I love, which oddly enough, we’re, we’re discussing this film for its 25th anniversary, but time bandits came out 1981, like in November. So we’re approaching the 40th anniversary of time bandits. Oh, wow. That also touches upon a lot of the same things where it’s, this movie begins and ends on the eyes of a child, eight year old child, that film deals with, I think the kids 11, it’s very cynical and it’s very dark, but it’s more comedic than 12 monkeys and fun. But it also plays with this whole idea of perception since Sean Connery plays both Agamemnon and the fireman at the end of the film, when he suppose when he returns home. And it also has all the anti-consumerism antiestablishment themes that are in, in this film, but it ends with he, he comes back through that adventure and he’s left and he’s his, his parents touched the wrong piece of, uh, you know, in the microwave and, and they’re just, they’re killed. He’s made an orphan at the end of the film. So the classic cautionary tale about science and meddling with the thing, you know, man, meddling with the things they are not meant to, if you do go through time, whether it’s to have adventures and steal stuff with a bunch of midgets or to try and stop a pandemic, you have to pay, you got to pay, right. So cold dies. And that kid gets his, his, his parents.

Scott:

Yeah, that’s true. By the way, just side note, my mother took me to see time bandits. I was pretty young. She hated that movie.

Pat:

Jena hates time bandits with a passion.

Scott

Really? I see. I like it.

Pat:

I own time. Bandits. I own the criterion time bandits. I own the arrow video, like 12 monkeys. I love that shit.

Speaker 3:

Okay. Yeah. I thought it was a great movie. And I thought the ending was really shocking to a little kid for a kid’s movie. It was pretty bold

Pat:

It’s and that’s why Gina didn’t like it. Cause it’s fucked up. Just like the ending of 12 monkeys is fucked up.

Scott:

Yeah. I re I read something. He said that someone asked him about happy endings and he said, my characters don’t have happy endings. If they’re lucky they survive.

Pat:

That’s pretty spot on and pretty bad Terry Gilliam and his films are like the way the world is right now is bonkers. And he’s obsessed with crazy people because they make more sense.

Scott:

Yeah. So overall, overall though, I have to say it’s a pretty good movie.

Pat:

Yes, definitely. I think it’s infinitely watchable. Uh, you learn something, you grab it. I think it’s holds up on its own.

Scott:

Right? It doesn’t seem dated at all. No,

Pat:

I enjoyed it. It was a pleasure revisiting again and again, the future is history, as it says, and it’s just it’s jam packed with so much. So there’s so much stuff that there’s more stuff that I’m sure you could say, or I could say, but, um, I guess, I guess we should wind down.

Scott:

Yeah. You hear the theme music. So that means we’re kind of coming to the end.

Pat:

That’s all the time we have for today. Thank you for listening. Our next episode is going to be quite different, especially in its tone and where it’s going to be a hoot. We were going to be discussing, continuing with the theme of animals from 12 monkeys. We are going to discuss birds of prey and the fantabulous emancipation of one Harley Quinn. Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate you joining us for our first podcast.

Scott:

Yep. And if you feel we got anything wrong or just want to say hi, or want to check up on any notes, come to thecinephiliaclounge.com.

Library of Congress – National Film Registry Selections for 2020

Films Selected for the 2020 National Film Registry (chronological order)

  1. Suspense (1913)
  2. Kid Auto Races at Venice (1914)
  3. Bread (1918)
  4. The Battle of the Century (1927)
  5. With Car and Camera Around the World (1929)
  6. Cabin in the Sky (1943)
  7. Outrage (1950)
  8. The Man with the Golden Arm (1955)
  9. Lilies of the Field (1963)
  10. A Clockwork Orange (1971)
  11. Sweet Sweetback’s Baadasssss Song (1971)
  12. Wattstax (1973)
  13. Grease (1978)
  14. The Blues Brothers (1980)
  15. Losing Ground (1982)
  16. Illusions (1982)
  17. The Joy Luck Club (1993)
  18. The Devil Never Sleeps (1994)
  19. Buena Vista Social Club (1999)
  20. The Ground (1993-2001)
  21. Shrek (2001)
  22. Mauna Kea: Temple Under Siege (2006)
  23. The Hurt Locker (2008)
  24. The Dark Knight (2008)
  25. Freedom Riders (2010)

More info at the National Film Registry website

Netflix hidden codes

NetflixOgre’s Crypt has created an exhaustive list of Netflix codes that when entered in the search bar take you directly to that particular genre. Check it out here

The list can be a little overwhelming so we’ve distilled a simplified list with all the major categories.  

Action & Adventure (1365)
Asian Action Movies (77232)
Classic Action & Adventure (46576)
Action Comedies (43040)
Action Thrillers (43048)
Adventures (7442)
Comic Book and Superhero Movies (10118)
Westerns (7700)
Spy Action & Adventure (10702)
Crime Action & Adventure (9584)
Foreign Action & Adventure (11828)
Martial Arts Movies (8985)
Military Action & Adventure (2125)
Anime (7424)
Adult Animation (11881)
Anime Action (2653)
Anime Comedies (9302)
Anime Dramas (452)
Anime Features (3063)
Anime Sci-Fi (2729)
Anime Horror (10695)
Anime Fantasy (11146)
Anime Series (6721)
Children & Family Movies (783)
Movies for ages 0 to 2 (6796)
Movies for ages 2 to 4 (6218)
Movies for ages 5 to 7 (5455)
Movies for ages 8 to 10 (561)
Movies for ages 11 to 12 (6962)
Education for Kids (10659)
Disney (67673)
Movies based on children’s books (10056)
Family Features (51056)
TV Cartoons (11177)
Kids’ TV (27346)
Kids Music (52843)
Animal Tales (5507)
Classic Movies (31574)
Classic Comedies (31694)
Classic Dramas (29809)
Classic Sci-Fi & Fantasy (47147)
Classic Thrillers (46588)
Film Noir (7687)
Classic War Movies (48744)
Epics (52858)
Classic Foreign Movies (32473)
Silent Movies (53310)
Classic Westerns (47465)
Comedies (6548)
Dark Comedies (869)
Foreign Comedies (4426)
Late Night Comedies (1402)
Mockumentaries (26)
Political Comedies (2700)
Screwball Comedies (9702)
Sports Comedies (5286)
Stand-up Comedy (11559)
Teen Comedies (3519)
Satires (4922)
Romantic Comedies (5475)
Slapstick Comedies (10256)
Cult Movies (7627)
B-Horror Movies (8195)
Campy Movies (1252)
Cult Horror Movies (10944)
Cult Sci-Fi & Fantasy (4734)
Cult Comedies (9434)
Documentaries (6839)
Biographical Documentaries (3652)
Crime Documentaries (9875)
Foreign Documentaries (5161)
Historical Documentaries (5349)
Military Documentaries (4006)
Sports Documentaries (180)
Music & Concert Documentaries (90361)
Travel & Adventure Documentaries (1159)
Political Documentaries (7018)
Religious Documentaries (10005)
Science & Nature Documentaries (2595)
Social & Cultural Documentaries (3675)
Dramas (5763)
Biographical Dramas (3179)
Classic Dramas (29809)
Courtroom Dramas (528582748)
Crime Dramas (6889)
Dramas based on Books (4961)
Dramas based on real life (3653)
Tearjerkers (6384)
Foreign Dramas (2150)
Sports Dramas (7243)
Gay & Lesbian Dramas (500)
Independent Dramas (384)
Teen Dramas (9299)
Military Dramas (11)
Period Pieces (12123)
Political Dramas (6616)
Romantic Dramas (1255)
Showbiz Dramas (5012)
Social Issue Dramas (3947)
Korean TV Shows (67879)
Miniseries (4814)
Military TV Shows (25804)
Science & Nature TV (52780)
TV Action & Adventure (10673)
TV Comedies (10375)
TV Documentaries (10105)
TV Dramas (11714)
TV Horror (83059)
TV Mysteries (4366)
TV Sci-Fi & Fantasy (1372)
Reality TV (9833)
Teen TV Shows (60951)

Russian (11567)
Scandinavian Movies (9292)
Southeast Asian Movies (9196)
Spanish Movies (58741)
Greek Movies (61115)
German Movies (58886)
French Movies (58807)
Eastern European Movies (5254)
Dutch Movies (10606)
Irish Movies (58750)
Japanese Movies (10398)
Italian Movies (8221)
Indian Movies (10463)
Chinese Movies (3960)
British Movies (10757)
Gay & Lesbian Movies (5977)
Gay & Lesbian Comedies (7120)
Gay & Lesbian Dramas (500)
Romantic Gay & Lesbian Movies (3329)
Foreign Gay & Lesbian Movies (8243)
Gay & Lesbian Documentaries (4720)
Gay & Lesbian TV Shows (65263)
Horror Movies (8711)
B-Horror Movies (8195)
Creature Features (6895)
Cult Horror Movies (10944)
Deep Sea Horror Movies (45028)
Foreign Horror Movies (8654)
Horror Comedy (89585)
Monster Movies (947)
Slasher and Serial Killer Movies (8646)
Supernatural Horror Movies (42023)
Teen Screams (52147)
Vampire Horror Movies (75804)
Werewolf Horror Movies (75930)
Zombie Horror Movies (75405)
Satanic Stories (6998)
Independent Movies (7077)
Experimental Movies (11079)
Independent Action & Adventure (11804)
Independent Thrillers (3269)
Romantic Independent Movies (9916)
Independent Comedies (4195)
Independent Dramas (384)
Music (1701)
Kids Music (52843)
Country & Western/Folk (1105)
Jazz & Easy Listening (10271)
Latin Music (10741)
Urban & Dance Concerts (9472)
World Music Concerts (2856)
Rock & Pop Concerts (3278)
Musicals (13335)
Classic Musicals (32392)
Disney Musicals (59433)
Showbiz Musicals (13573)
Stage Musicals (55774)
Romantic Movies (8883)
Romantic Favorites (502675)
Quirky Romance (36103)
Romantic Independent Movies (9916)
Romantic Foreign Movies (7153)
Romantic Dramas (1255)
Steamy Romantic Movies (35800)
Classic Romantic Movies (31273)
Romantic Comedies (5475)
Sci-Fi & Fantasy (1492)
Action Sci-Fi & Fantasy (1568)
Alien Sci-Fi (3327)
Classic Sci-Fi & Fantasy (47147)
Cult Sci-Fi & Fantasy (4734)
Fantasy Movies (9744)
Sci-Fi Adventure (6926)
Sci-Fi Dramas (3916)
Sci-Fi Horror Movies (1694)
Sci-Fi Thrillers (11014)
Foreign Sci-Fi & Fantasy (6485)
Sports Movies (4370)
Sports Comedies (5286)
Sports Documentaries (180)
Sports Dramas (7243)
Baseball Movies (12339)
Football Movies (12803)
Boxing Movies (12443)
Soccer Movies (12549)
Martial Arts, Boxing & Wrestling (6695)
Basketball Movies (12762)
Sports & Fitness (9327)
Thrillers (8933)
Action Thrillers (43048)
Classic Thrillers (46588)
Crime Thrillers (10499)
Foreign Thrillers (10306)
Independent Thrillers (3269)
Gangster Movies (31851)
Psychological Thrillers (5505)
Political Thrillers (10504)
Mysteries (9994)
Sci-Fi Thrillers (11014)
Spy Thrillers (9147)
Steamy Thrillers (972)
Supernatural Thrillers (11140)
TV Shows (83)
British TV Shows (52117)
Classic TV Shows (46553)
Crime TV Shows (26146)
Cult TV Shows (74652)
Food & Travel TV (72436)
Kids’ TV (27346)